Transcript: "I want to go back really briefly to uh your understanding of what the American Revolution means in the context of the grant determinations that we've been discussing. The American Revolution, right? That's right. So, if I understand correctly, one of your goals was to save retain grants that had to do with the American Revolution. Is that right? Um, no, that wasn't explicitly stated. Okay. So, that wasn't one of the goals of keeping grants related to the American Revolution was not one of our guiding criteria for the founding of the country. If there were papers related to the founding fathers of the country, our judgement was to not terminate those. Okay. Only the founding fathers or the greater context of the American Revolution and the founding of the country. Which one? Um I think they both would have fell in that general category, but it wasn't explicitly the American Revolution. Okay. But it was explicitly the founding fathers. It wasn't explicitly the founding fathers. There was a judgement call of figures around that time period of the country that we thought were apolitical and worth keeping. Okay. When you say they were apolitical, what does that mean? That they didn't have they weren't related to DEI and both a reasonable person would look at those and say that they're not political. How would you determine what a reasonable person would think? We're using we're using our judgment. Okay. So, um, if there was a grant that came from that time period that touched on the American Revolution or the founding fathers, but referenced the word black or gay or LGBTQ plus or something, how would you determine whether that would be saved or not? Um, I don't know. That's a theoretical question and that wasn't one of the grants that was included. So, I don't know. There were no grants that you cancelled from that time period. Do you have the list of grants? We, we can look at the grants. I don't know. Okay. There were 1500 of them. I guess I'm asking because it's kind of if you have a question about a specific grant, I'm happy to ask how we would have treated it. Right. So, if I give you an example of a grant, can you tell me how you would perceive whether that grant Sure. is is it an actual grant from NEH? Well, I'll let you know. Um, so if there was a grant, let's say about um, let's say a black person during the founding of the country and it said black or people of color in the description, would that grant be flagged for review based on the usage of the term black or person of color? Um, no. I wouldn't have. Okay. How were you otherwise finding grants that were DEI? Was it not through certain terms, certain words? Uh, you would search DEI, DEIA, equity, inclusion, BIPAC, LGBTQ, LGBTQ+, etc. Okay. So there was a grant that was cancelled that was the description was 40 acres in the American Revolution, stories of independence and servitude. Planning of exhibits and public programs exploring the lives of the enslaved and prisoners of war at the 40 acres farmstead in Hadley, Massachusetts during the American Revolutionary Period. Is there something in that description that would flag DEI for you? Objection. Uh, can you can you read it again? Sure. 40 acres and the American Revolution, stories of independence and servitude, planning of exhibits and public programs exploring the lives of the enslaved and prisoners of war at the 40 acres farmstead in Hadley, Massachusetts during the American Revolutionary Period. No, there's nothing in there that would strike me as DEI. So, why do you think this was flagged as DEI? Wait, as E as EA or D EI? What was your last thing you said? What? As DEI? Okay, sorry. What was your question? Why was this grant cancelled but other grants that related to the founding of the country not canceled? I think we discussed this maybe, maybe we didn't. The only the only criteria that we used was not just DEI. It was DEI plus our judgement about wasteful spend. Right? We had a broad mandate to reduce the amount of grants that were outlayed at NE. And that was not one of the priorities that the administration cited as important. So it was cut not on the basis of DEI on the basis of being unnecessary and wasteful. But you were promoting the founding of the country, right, Jackson? We were promoting the founding of the country. Um, no, that's not what we were doing. Okay. I guess it appears to me, and tell me if I'm wrong, but one of the goals of your work was to preserve grants that were about, as you said, the founding fathers, the American Revolution. I didn't say the American Revolution. You said the American Revolution. So, let's actually figure out exactly what you meant by this. What exactly in this context of the American Revolution, the founding fathers, what exactly were you trying to preserve and the DOGE team trying to preserve? Uh it so f first of all um Mike McDonald and Adam had a view of what should be kept and what should be cut. Um their view initially was that papers relating to George Washington, John Adams, etc. were important enough to keep. Um, that's not to say that every grant related to the founding of the country and every grant related to the American Revolution fell into that bucket. Those are ones that they specifically flagged as important enough to keep. In addition to that, there was an entire bucket around the America 250 initiative, the Garden of Heroes Museum that were in addition to the ones I just mentioned. There were probably 30 or so that I think your colleague flagged before. So, that's not to say we were to keep every single grant related to the founding of the country. There were just some that they advised that they wanted to keep. So, Okay. So, it sounds like there was some type of priority reserved for grants that had to do with the founding as opposed to grants that did not have anything to do with the founding of the country. That's I think generally right. Okay, great. And the grant that I just read had something to do with the founding of the country and it was terminated. In your view, why? You'll have to ask Justin [Fox]. I actually don't know. Okay." https://www.youtube.com/embed/eQQuClhf46A?start=623&end=1049
Related: "DOGE employee [Justin Fox] struggles to answer what DEI is" https://www.youtube.com/embed/27umfMkK4Ok?start=29
Concept: "The National Endowment for the Humanities (NEH) [Government]
Further reading: Policy Diversity Equity and Inclusion
Bibliography: "DOGE employee struggles to answer what DEI is". (2026, March 13). WUSA9. https://www.wusa9.com/video/news/politics/doge-employee-struggles-to-answer-what-dei-is/65-b389fdc6-b922-45b7-9aff-2d4a08b538ac
